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Popped into my mind while trying to come up with examples for this post.
Disclaimer: I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself, and my knowledge of this issue is not exhaustive to say the least.
The "Fat Characters" thread is especially difficult for me, and not just because I wish that the moderators had chosen a different terminology to use for it. I recognize that some bloggers are trying to reclaim the word "fat," what with the fat-positive movement, but it's still used as an insult from grade school on up, and there are other terms that would work better, in my opinion. I myself have neutral associations with the term, although a few years ago that would've been different. But that's probably another rant.
I think that I'm mostly finding it difficult because of how the fandoms that I'm in treat overweight characters. I was going down a mental list, and a lot of them that I could come up with were villains. And not the big, awesome villains that tend to get lots of fangirls, like Kefka or Sephiroth or Kuja, but the minor villains who tend to die early on and are often played for laughs, like Gesthal or Palmer or Brahne. Not all of them were villains - Cid Kramer (FFVIII), Yangus (DQ8) and Drachma (SoA) are notable examples of characters in this particular vein who aren't evil and who have at least some character development within their canons, and even then they're often portrayed as weak, or used as comic relief in a way that the thinner characters never are.
It's part of something else in Japanese character design that bugs me at times, their tendency to code their characters visually. As I said on my last DW post about Radiant Historia, I really wanted to see the main character's mentor (who, while not fat, was an old man drawn in a deliberately unattractive way) turn out to be a loyal and true friend and ally to the hero, and while I'm not quite there yet, I don't think that's going to happen in this case. I haven't seen it happen in a while; I think that Yangus from DQ8 was the last case I remember of a character who was unattractive being a friendly, loyal and competent teammate, despite the fact that he was often played for laughs.
I can name a LOT more examples of bumbling, ineffectual or villainous larger characters - the Final Fantasy characters I've already mentioned, Heideggar and President Shinra from FFVII, Maester Kinoc from FFX, Owzer from FFVI, and Charmles and Rolo from DQ8, just to name a few. Most of the time, when you see an overweight character, you can make a safe bet that character is either going to be a villain, comic relief, ineffectual, or some combination of the above.
And for a lot of the other games I've played, I can't think of a single example of a "fat" character, villain or ally. And I'm not sure whether that's better or worse. On the one hand, they're not being portrayed positively. On the other hand, they're not being portrayed negatively, either. (Also note the relative lack of female names in that list. Even as a villain, it seems that very few developers want to have an overweight woman in their games....)
I might not be the best person to make this rant; I've been struggling to stay at a weight that I can maintain and still be healthy for most of my life, where "healthy" equals "able to sustain moderate physical activity without crashing after a few minutes," or "able to lift moderately heavy objects without relying on others to do it for me" or "able to stand for long periods of time as required by my workplace without seriously damaging my knees." I'm not quite sure I can say that I can stay at my current weight (which I do feel is higher than I'd like) and be happy with it, just because my health isn't where I want it to be and my weight is a large part of that. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see characters who are overweight be treated as competent and loyal people more often. Being overweight isn't always a choice - heredity plays a part, as does upbringing, as does body chemistry, as do circumstances. You work two jobs just to feed your family? You try having time to get thirty minutes of exercise three times a week, or the energy. You definitely can't afford a gym membership or workout equipment, that's for sure. For that matter, just try affording the usual "healthy" food - all of the affordable healthy food is harder to prepare and takes a lot of time. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just not as easy as it's made out to be.
And yet, people who are "fat" are still portrayed in media as unlovable, incompetent buffoons. And I really think there's something wrong with that. Role models are important, and if a person is made to feel worthless because they are "fat," well, that makes it harder to change. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, shame is not a great motivator to inspire someone to change. Mostly it's a motivator to hide in one's house and wallow in one's shame. And that's not going to help anyone - not the people who do need help, not the people around them, not the health care system that keeps complaining about having to pay for obesity-related health problems. I really think that positivity would go a long way toward solving these problems, because in my experience, positivity makes people want to go out and take care of themselves, and sometimes that does mean taking actions that would result in weight loss.
And sometimes it doesn't. And frankly, that's okay. Health is important, not weight.
---
Side mini-rant on attitudes toward skinniness, because it came to mind when I was writing this.
Being overly thin can be just as damaging as being fat. Just ask any recovering anorexic, or anyone who has had difficulty maintaining a healthy weight because of medical or digestive problems. It isn't a picnic, and requires about as much adjustment to one's lifestyle as weight loss would, as I've learned; if someone is thin but can't eat much, then you have to make sure that the food that they can eat is high enough in calories to support them, while also not containing anything that might irritate their digestive tracts. It's a difficult balancing act.
But since "skinny" is the current ideal, no one thinks twice about, say, jokingly telling skinny people how much they "hate" them for their low body-fat percentages or whatnot. If it's not treated as a joke, then they're supposed to take it as a compliment. And when "I hate you" is meant to be a compliment, in any context... well, something is very, very wrong.
Disclaimer: I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself, and my knowledge of this issue is not exhaustive to say the least.
The "Fat Characters" thread is especially difficult for me, and not just because I wish that the moderators had chosen a different terminology to use for it. I recognize that some bloggers are trying to reclaim the word "fat," what with the fat-positive movement, but it's still used as an insult from grade school on up, and there are other terms that would work better, in my opinion. I myself have neutral associations with the term, although a few years ago that would've been different. But that's probably another rant.
I think that I'm mostly finding it difficult because of how the fandoms that I'm in treat overweight characters. I was going down a mental list, and a lot of them that I could come up with were villains. And not the big, awesome villains that tend to get lots of fangirls, like Kefka or Sephiroth or Kuja, but the minor villains who tend to die early on and are often played for laughs, like Gesthal or Palmer or Brahne. Not all of them were villains - Cid Kramer (FFVIII), Yangus (DQ8) and Drachma (SoA) are notable examples of characters in this particular vein who aren't evil and who have at least some character development within their canons, and even then they're often portrayed as weak, or used as comic relief in a way that the thinner characters never are.
It's part of something else in Japanese character design that bugs me at times, their tendency to code their characters visually. As I said on my last DW post about Radiant Historia, I really wanted to see the main character's mentor (who, while not fat, was an old man drawn in a deliberately unattractive way) turn out to be a loyal and true friend and ally to the hero, and while I'm not quite there yet, I don't think that's going to happen in this case. I haven't seen it happen in a while; I think that Yangus from DQ8 was the last case I remember of a character who was unattractive being a friendly, loyal and competent teammate, despite the fact that he was often played for laughs.
I can name a LOT more examples of bumbling, ineffectual or villainous larger characters - the Final Fantasy characters I've already mentioned, Heideggar and President Shinra from FFVII, Maester Kinoc from FFX, Owzer from FFVI, and Charmles and Rolo from DQ8, just to name a few. Most of the time, when you see an overweight character, you can make a safe bet that character is either going to be a villain, comic relief, ineffectual, or some combination of the above.
And for a lot of the other games I've played, I can't think of a single example of a "fat" character, villain or ally. And I'm not sure whether that's better or worse. On the one hand, they're not being portrayed positively. On the other hand, they're not being portrayed negatively, either. (Also note the relative lack of female names in that list. Even as a villain, it seems that very few developers want to have an overweight woman in their games....)
I might not be the best person to make this rant; I've been struggling to stay at a weight that I can maintain and still be healthy for most of my life, where "healthy" equals "able to sustain moderate physical activity without crashing after a few minutes," or "able to lift moderately heavy objects without relying on others to do it for me" or "able to stand for long periods of time as required by my workplace without seriously damaging my knees." I'm not quite sure I can say that I can stay at my current weight (which I do feel is higher than I'd like) and be happy with it, just because my health isn't where I want it to be and my weight is a large part of that. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see characters who are overweight be treated as competent and loyal people more often. Being overweight isn't always a choice - heredity plays a part, as does upbringing, as does body chemistry, as do circumstances. You work two jobs just to feed your family? You try having time to get thirty minutes of exercise three times a week, or the energy. You definitely can't afford a gym membership or workout equipment, that's for sure. For that matter, just try affording the usual "healthy" food - all of the affordable healthy food is harder to prepare and takes a lot of time. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just not as easy as it's made out to be.
And yet, people who are "fat" are still portrayed in media as unlovable, incompetent buffoons. And I really think there's something wrong with that. Role models are important, and if a person is made to feel worthless because they are "fat," well, that makes it harder to change. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, shame is not a great motivator to inspire someone to change. Mostly it's a motivator to hide in one's house and wallow in one's shame. And that's not going to help anyone - not the people who do need help, not the people around them, not the health care system that keeps complaining about having to pay for obesity-related health problems. I really think that positivity would go a long way toward solving these problems, because in my experience, positivity makes people want to go out and take care of themselves, and sometimes that does mean taking actions that would result in weight loss.
And sometimes it doesn't. And frankly, that's okay. Health is important, not weight.
---
Side mini-rant on attitudes toward skinniness, because it came to mind when I was writing this.
Being overly thin can be just as damaging as being fat. Just ask any recovering anorexic, or anyone who has had difficulty maintaining a healthy weight because of medical or digestive problems. It isn't a picnic, and requires about as much adjustment to one's lifestyle as weight loss would, as I've learned; if someone is thin but can't eat much, then you have to make sure that the food that they can eat is high enough in calories to support them, while also not containing anything that might irritate their digestive tracts. It's a difficult balancing act.
But since "skinny" is the current ideal, no one thinks twice about, say, jokingly telling skinny people how much they "hate" them for their low body-fat percentages or whatnot. If it's not treated as a joke, then they're supposed to take it as a compliment. And when "I hate you" is meant to be a compliment, in any context... well, something is very, very wrong.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-03 03:14 pm (UTC)From:Agreed entirely on the end of your post, by the way. When society holds up one ideal body image, it hurts everyone, including those who fit that body image.
...Watching sumo wrestling actually started to make me feel better about things, because when you see those guys who are basically mountains move... they don't just have inertia, they're graceful. They've got body control many other athletes would envy. We can show that as a role model, can't we? I demand that my next RPG has a female sumo wrestler who's not made to be a figure of fun. ...and, while I'm wishing, where's that damn pony, universe?
no subject
Date: 2011-06-03 04:48 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2011-06-04 02:41 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2011-06-05 02:21 am (UTC)From:I'm obese in BMI terms now, probably partly due to the SSRI I'm taking for social anxiety (it gave me ten pounds, and the rest I did on my own.) I'm also more physically active than I've been since college, eating a healthier diet than I ever did in my skinnier days, and more mentally healthy than I've been my whole life. I'll take increased diabetes risk any day over being unable to go shopping alone or have a conversation with my husband in a public place.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-06 12:30 pm (UTC)From: